Well ladies and gentlemen, I hope that you enjoyed the first part of the Season 2 premiere today. Now, time to dive back into some document sources. The canonical source of Islam (al-Islam, meaning "surrender" or "submission") is the Koran [Qur'an], which contains revelations from Allah (simply "God" in Arabic), "the God of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Tribes [of Israel]... and Jesus," to the Prophet Muhammad. Transmitted through the intermediary of the angel Gabriel (yes, the same Gabriel from the New Testament of the Bible that informed Mary that she was to have a son, and his name will be Jesus) during the 20 years of Muhammad's apostolate, these full and complete revelations embodied Allah's "eternal knowledge and judgement of all things" and a perfection of all previous religions. As the ultimate authority in Islam and the "supreme self-manifestation of God to His creatures," the Koran was early reduced to writing. Yet an official, authoritative edition did not appear until after the Prophet's death in 632 C.E. Divided into 114 chapters (suras) and containing 77,639 words, the text of the Koran is arranged in order of decreasing length with complete disregard for chronology. Internally each sura consists of verses [ayat', meaning "signs" or "tokens"] with post-Muhammad headings derived from key terms in the text. Written in classical Arabic, the Koran adheres to a metrical style and was designed to be heard. The passages I would like you to read from the Koran are from Sura IV ("Women"), and the focus is on women, children, orphans, and inheritances, with injunctions to males in the Islamic patriarchal society regarding them.The following passages obviously invite judgements about what kind of family life and gender relations were urged in Islamic society. We can compare these with other versions of a patriarchal system in classical India and China. These passages also show how Islamic religion developed specific regulations, not just general ethics, for personal and family behavior, harking back to older Middle Eastern traditions in this area. Finally, the passages also show something of the Islamic view of God, in whose name men and women were to regulate their relationships.
Please click on the following link (The Koran, Sura IV) in order to read these passages ( you only have to read pages 72-78 [4:2-4:32 and 4:36-4:39] and page 91 [4:128-4:129] ). After reading those excerpts, I would like for you all to think about and discuss the following... Did Islam enforce a patriarchal gender system? What were the key protections for women, and how did they compare with protective features in the earlier classical and river-valley civilizations? Were women spiritually equal to men in Islam? How was this reconciled with patriarchal traditions? What kinds of concerns did Islam emphasize concerning sexuality? Your thoughts...
25 comments:
Im not going to lie, I didn't understand much of that but what i did get was that the orphans needed to be respected and taken care of (I'm guessing because of Muhammad's background) and that men can have many wives if they are worthy. I hope I understood that correctly.
i didnt understand much about it either besides that muhhamed was a pretty cool guy and that he seemed to be pretty close to the preachings of judaism and christianity. is that right?
kinda sounds like be good to everyone, with maybe a hint of doing things in moderation when talking about rich and poor people. seems mostly just about how u should treat others, which is with respect and that u should help them, which is what the bible and torah also talk about. coincidence? i think not.
Woman were supposed to be treated well, but later it talks about how
Allah made 2 women equal one man in spirituality, so thats supposed to mean inequality, right? it said something about how men should give gifts to the woman during marriage, sorta like what we talked about during class. it talks about men having four wives at the most and how they can't marry certain relatives. most off it was hard to put through the brain, but this is what i got mainly.
Women were treated better in this society than other ones that we have studied. Women were granted rights that were unique to Islamic societies. For example, women were seen as equals in the eyes of god and not as objects that were to passed on from generation to generation. Dowries were also paid toward the bride, not the husband. However, this society was still a patriarchal one. Men were allowed to have multiple wives while women were only allowed to have one husband. This was all reinforced by the Koran which shows that it supported a male-dominating society.
I have a question. Are the suras directly from Muhammad's revelations, like is each sura a different revelation or is it just explanations of them? On page 74 of the text, was it explaining who got what when it comes to a will? It is very interesting that it says that God will forgive you if you do evil in ignorance and you repent immediately, but if you do not repent until your deathbed, he will not forgive you. They also have a whole system of who you cannot marry when it comes to your family.
This society tries to make you think that men and women are equal but they really aren't and it truly is a patriarchal society. It leads you to believe that men and women are equal because it says that in the eyes of God they are. Women also are allowed to own property and business. Also, it is a matrilineal society and the dowries were payed toward the wives. However, the society shows that women and men are not equal when men are allowed to have up to four wives which I do not think is right and they favored baby boys over baby girls. This is the best society for women so far but it still isn't in my eyes ideal.
miss farell, yes, the koran is essentially a collection of written accounts of muhammed's revelations. and yes you interpreted what you read directly. this sura deals directly with wills. interestingly orphans are mentioned quite a bit too. i wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that muhammed was orphaned at an early age. hmm... interesting.
they definitly had a patriarchal society, but this was one better for women than the other societies. They were more independent, meaing they could own businesses with no male involved, and pass on and gain inheritance. They may not have been completly considered, but the Quran told the men to treat women with respect. In things, such as inheritance, women were counted for as less, but they were still counted. All believers that repent can get into heaven, man or woman, they are both equal in capability, yet women were made from man, as it says in the first line. They are not equal, yet they are.
You were not to "be with" any close family member-by blood or marrage. It was looked at as indecent and evil. It also mentions not to cheat on another when married.
this society was definately patriarchal. women were not equal to men but they had more rights than other societies have given women. women were allowed to own businesses. the quran told men to treat women with respect, which i totally agree with. i mean at least women had rights in the society. this is how muhammad met his wife, which he was still his boss even after they got married. you could not kill a blood relative or cheat if you were married.
i will say though, miss stucke, that even though men could have up to four wives this was rare. the reason is because, if you look closer at the text here, that if you have more than one wife, you must treat them equally and provide for them equally. basically then, if you can't afford more than one wife, you can't have more than one wife. therefore, this really does serve to protect women in a society in which polygamy was actually quite common.
yeah, it was a little difficult to understand, but based on what we've already learned about Muhammad and Islam, women were held in rather high esteem comparatively and they were equal to men before Allah. They were allowed the same religious priveliges, but they also had to follow the same rules. true, it was a patriarchal society, to be certain (in fact, who can name a single matriarchal society?) but that trait was emphasized and inforced much less than in about all of the other major civilizations that we've studied thus far, thanks to Islam.
umm, yeahhhh. i really didn't catch much of that. maybe its cuz im tired, and can barely see, but it really made like.... no sense... haha. all i really got from that was you just need to treat everyone with respect... Maybe?? am i wrong??
ok folks, sure it's a challenging text, but let's not keep up this idea of it being not understandable. seriously, let's make sure we're not scanning through documents but that we're really reading ALL OF THEM CAREFULLY (even if you don't post). my suggestion would be to print these out, and then instead of reading off a screen you can underline, highlight, jot notes, thoughts, etc. this particular document is LOADED with meaning... in just the few notes i have here i have jotted down the following...
--polygamy forbidden if you can only afford one wife
--bride price mentioned
--women get a share of inheritances, not just men
--fatherless boys (orphans) not to be taken advantage of (hmm... muhammed was himself an orphan, interesting)
--mother to be included in a will
--inheritances a big deal in sura 4, which women take part in
--one's salvation is literally dependent on following these ethical guidelines regarding the treatment of women and orphans (interesting, i recall that paul in the new testament make very similar comments)
--women must be modest in appearance (again, i recall similar words from paul)
--if a man and woman commit an act of indecency, both parties share in the blame (unusual during this time period)
--men ordered to deal with women "honorably"
--incest is clearly forbidden (a protection especially for young girls)
--women are to share in the wealth of the family, both in contributing to it and enjoying it's benefits
--"God desires to lighten things for you" (we see here constantly in this text the idea of a wise and compassionate God)
--"men are the managers of the affairs of women" (still not equal; but do christian texts read any differently; i recall paul's words that "the man is the head of the women, as christ is head of the congregation."
folks, this should be our thought process, we should be critically analyzing these documents, and we should be directly addressing the discussion questions i have asked. let's not be lazy about this.
Reading the Koran made me realize the vast similarities with Islam and Christianity. Several times I thought I was reading the Bible not the Koran. Obviously, the idea of men and women being seen equally in front of God/Allah is a similarity the share. But I thought the passage of the Koran could we read could be compared to the book of Proverbs in the Bible as well as many other books too. I noticed how the Koran mentioned several times how someone should be god-fearing. This reminded me of the first chapter in Proverbs where this same idea is mentioned several times.
yeah i deffinetly didnt really understand this just basically muhammed was a pretty tight dude i think
In the Islamic world i think women were treated with much more respect and were given many more rights than any of the past civilizations we have studied.BUt not that many rights, there still were some signs of inequality. Women were seen equal under the name of God(Allah) and are to be treated with respect. It also talks about how men can have more than one wife and i how she should be obidient to her and he to her.But still the womenw ere only allowed to have one husband and therefore, mainly because of the teachings of the Qur'an the society is still a patriarchial soceity, but maybe less stricter?
It's kind of interesting to see how much Muhammad's personal life affected all of the "revelations" he supposively had. For instance, he was an orphan and the Koran talks about not taking advantage of orphans. Also he taught that women could own land and businesses and his first wife owned a major business.
Ok, yea that was really hard for me to understand. lol. But i honestly dont like how the men could have four wives but the women couldnt have four husbands. But sometimes its ok cuz the men can only support one wife.
i was thinking the same thing as madison. it seems strange that the revelations seemed to conflict with muhammad's life.
but i was wondering like what if a man couldnt afford one wife? what would he do then? just work until he could afford one wife? or was there something special that happened once you reach a certain age and you were single?..
and how could they make one man equal to two woman? thats not equality in the least bit. yeah woman deserve the higher rights after how they were treated before, but if their trying to make men and woman equal, this isnt exactly a way to do it.
but im loving how woman get more in this religion. it shows the process of how we got our rights today.
Even though this was a patriarchal society women were still suppose to be treated with respect. There were even these laws? to help enforce that. It also says in there that you are not allowed to marry any part of your family and that men must pay the dowry to the wife rather then the other way around. It also mentions that if you are allowed to marry up to four people, but if you are only able to support one then only marry one, if you can only support three - don't marry four. Which I think would help to keep the women treated correctly.
Even though this society is still sort of unfiar towards women (marry as many as you want, as long as you can afford them), it seems to be more of a balance than other societies of that time period. The Koran is basically saying that you should take i orphans, and be hospitable. Wasn't Muhammed an orphan?
Although women have much more rights than all the women in the classical society, they are still put under men right from the fist couple sentences the koran says. It basically says that women are created for men and by them. The Bible is very similar with the story of adam and eve. so since these texts were were written and probably before, men always thought they were more superior because without them women wouldnt be here. That doesnt mean that women should be underminded. once again both texts are all about perception.
Unlike any of the Classical societies, women got certain parts of the will of their husbands and family. They didnt get as much as a man would but they at least recieved a chunk. That is a huge step up from before. Women are also actually honored in the society. The koran tells the men to honor women. There is one sentence that says women and women are equal under god but there is also times when men are more superior under god as well doing certain jobs. The orphans are suppose to be help as well which is mentioned in the text. it is not there fault for there situation so they need to be helped and held to everyone else's level. The Koran has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism, which really shows how Muhammad was a merchant learning ideas about different religions.
This society isn't quite as patriarchal as the Classical societies we've studied thus far. In the text, Islam supported quite a bit of equality under God. Women were able to own land and businesses which in many other societies was not true. Instead of the dowry being paid to the male's side of the family, the female's family was the ones receiving the payment to compensate for the loss of marrying off their daughter. Also, the Koran tried to keep males having multiple wives to a minimum. The fact that women weren't allowed to have multiple spouses while the men could was a bit on the patriarchal side of things, but Islam tried to keep that from getting out of control such as men having hundreds of wives. The Koran said that a man could only marry if he could afford it. By afford, I mean be able to pay a dowry and take care of the woman. If you could do so having multiple wives, it was allowed. Another thing mentioned was the orphans. Muhammad himself was an orphan during his life which could have been incorporated into the Koran for people to be nice and caring towards other orphans as well.
I think that they definetly had a patriarchal society. It wasn't as strict and the women had more rights than ever before, which i think is great. But women still have limited rights compared to men. the koran says that two women are equal to one man so that is inequality, but the koran also say that you must be kind to womem, orpahns, and family. At first i didn't understand the orphan part but then i thought back to the 5 pillars of Islam and one says that you have to contribute alms for the relief of the weak and poor so now i understand that way better. :]
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