Saturday, September 6, 2008

Comparing Greek Political Traditions


¡Hola mi gente! I hope everyone is having a good weekend so far. Our discussion of the classical period will continue throughout all of next week, and as with all the classical civilizations, the culture that developed along Europe's Mediterranean shores produced important political institutions and principles. The key political form, in Greece and later in republican Rome, was the city-state. Within its bounds, the portion of the population with political rights was supposed to participate actively in the affairs of state, to which it owed loyalty and service. Within this context, however, a variety of political structures arose. Some evolved toward democracy (though with many residents excluded from rights, i.e. women, slaves, and foreigners). In this, Athens led the way, providing not only participant assemblies but also considerable support for individual freedom and legal rights. Other Greek city-states, however, stressed the power of government. Sparta, which would finally clash with Athens in the Peloponnesian War, set up a rigid militaristic regime designed to transform each male or female citizen into an absolute servant of the government. When Athens and Sparta warred at the end of the fifth century B.C.E., the conflict involved not only power, but also two clashing views of political life.

The Spartan system, described in the writings of Plutarch, was set up by the lawmaker Lycurgus after 650 B.C.E., in large part to keep a vast slave (helot) population under control. I would like you to read some excerpts of the writings of Plutarch, specifically excerpts from his biography of Lycurgus, by clicking on the following link (Lycurgus by Plutarch).

In contrast to the Spartan system, the Athenian ideal was articulated by its great leader Pericles during the fifth century B.C.E., the early stages of the Peloponnesian War, as part of a famous funeral oration that appears in the history by Thucydides. Please click on the following link (Pericles' Funeral Oration) to read this funeral oration.

The two selections no doubt allow a clear comparison between the ideas of the two city-states. It is important to realize that most articulate Greeks (including both Thucydides and Plutarch) preferred Spartan values. Why might this be so in your opinion? Are there any shared features beneath the obvious contrasts of Athens and Sparta? What resulted, in classical Greece itself and in the later Greek heritage, from such sharply differentiated systems within a common culture? Also, after reading the two documents, I would like you all to think about, and discuss, the following: What was the nature of family regulation in Sparta? What were the reasons for it? How does Pericles define the nature and purpose of the Athenian state? What were the differences between Athenian and Spartan systems of military recruitment and motivation for service? Were there any similarities between Spartan and Athenian values and goals. Were Sparta and Athens forerunners of contemporary government systems, or would this be a misleading assessment? Does Pericles remind you of any modern day politicians? For my money, every time I read his funeral oration, it just seems so modern to me. What do you think? Does Sparta remind you of any 20th century governments? Finally, how do Athenian political principles compare with Confucian ideals and goals? Why was Confucianism ultimately more successful? Your thoughts...

10 comments:

Jordyn Farrell said...

I love the fact that the women ran Sparta while the men were away at war all the time. It was probably begrudgingly done, but one of the few female run societies at the time. Gorgo also said that it is right that women are over men because the women "bring forth the men". It is also very interesting that they did not believe in earning a living for onesself but for the state.

Prill said...

a prelude to socialism in a way, no?

Alec Livaditis said...

The funeral speech reminded me of the themes and ideas in All Quiet on the Western Front.

Fight for the Mother Country!
Your death will be glorius!

Confucianism was propbably more succesful than Athenian ideas because Confucius addressed all parts of society in the five relationships.

Both Sparta and Athens were alike in that they both had a great deal of patriotic spirit. Yet in Sparta in seemed forced to me. It was the law that everything that you did was for the state, like socialism. In the funeral speech, Pericles discusses this topic. He says that they are not all business, they have fun sometimes. Athenians didn't look down upon personal interest.

"The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbour for doing what he likes, or even to indulge in those injurious looks which cannot fail to be offensive, although they inflict no positive penalty. "

This particular quote shows represents the honor and respect for soldiers in Atheian society, much like in America today.

"Such is the Athens for which these men, in the assertion of their resolve not to lose her, nobly fought and died; and well may every one of their survivors be ready to suffer in her cause."

Nor did Athenians neccessarily look down upon poverty.

"wealth we employ more for use than for show, and place the real disgrace of poverty not in owning to the fact but in declining the struggle against it."

It seems to me that in Sparta, even if you weren't a helot, you were still a servant to the state.

Sparta seems like a very early Socialist society, while Athens seems like a very early democracy.

Smurphy said...

Mr. Prill! Okay, well I was talking to you about this in class but...
This weekend, on Saturday night I believe, I got into this hour long debate with my boyfriend about the early greek societies such as Sparta and Athens, then the Macedonians taking over after the Peloponnesian war. Then we started to rewind and talk about Persia, and he tried to say that Xerxes was not a bad guy and he didnt truly corrupt the constant and lasting Persian lifestyle. It was quite amusing because then he admitted to not knowing about the Ionian society on the edge of the Persian empire. So then he got mad when I said "I'm right, you're wrong." But hey, so true so true. :]

Abbi Edwards said...

I think that it is really interesting how up to date and realistic that funeral procession is. It does sound extremely like our time funerals, and that again shows how influential the greek empire is the the modern western civilization. I just seriusly didn't realiize how much we use their traditions! I also think its interesting how, not only did they influence the western world, they influenced other societies areound it with their wealth and trade. I just have never noticed how important of a society they were to the whole world until now.

Prill said...

miss murphy... i love stories like that. that's what we do here in ap world, bringing people together one debate at a time.

Leeshah said...

Sparta was different because of the fact that women ruled it. I believe that this was a good place for a woman to be. But women in Greece had no power whatsoever and it seemed like they were treated as nothing.

Alabaster said...

To start off, the Spartan militaristic style was much different than that of Athens. In Sparta, the males were started under training as young as 7, showing how intense their views on military power was. The whole Spartan way of life was based on the military and government rule of things, which is quite different than the Athenian views. Both societies viewed slaves as important, although the Spartans viewed slaves(helots) as crucial, due to their agricultural foundation. Also, in Sparta, while the men were away at war, the women kinda "held down the fort". On another note, I think that the funeral oration was very interesting, as it showed Spartan views on a lighter scale.

The Odyssey said...

the woman power in sparta was soooooooo much better than it was in greece. whenever men were off at war the woman would rule sparta.

Anonymous said...

i think its great that while the men were of at war the women ran the state
it show the werent weak or anything
but what i dont agree with is that for the most part the men got most if not all the credit
for it