The tables certainly turned in the Season 3 finale didn't they? For close to a century Japan was a European success story in Asia. Portuguese traders and missionaries began visiting Japan regularly in the 1540s, and the Spanish, Dutch, and English soon followed. The Japanese were fascinated by European goods such as eyeglasses and clocks and were quick to appreciate the military potential of European firearms and artillery. Some even adopted European dress. Daimyo on the island of Kyushu in southwestern Japan competed for European trade by tolerating the presence of Catholic missionaries and in a few cases converting to Christianity themselves. Oda Nobunaga, the military leader who unified approximately half of Japan in the 1570s and 1580s, encouraged Catholic missionary activity to weaken his rivals, the powerful and wealthy Buddhist monasteries. His tolerance of missionary activity led to numerous conversions in the district of Kyoto, Japan’s capital city. By the early seventeenth century approximately 500,000 Japanese had become Christians.By then, however, anti-European sentiment was growing. Nobunaga’s successor, Hideyoshi, became suspicious of Europeans after the Spaniards conquered the Philippines, and he began to question the loyalty of daimyo who had become Christians. In 1597, he ordered the crucifixion of nine Catholic missionaries and seventeen Japanese converts. The early Tokugawa shoguns, in their single-minded pursuit of stability and order, also feared the subversive potential of Christianity. They sought to obliterate it, while at the same time limiting commercial contacts with China, Southeast Asia, and Europe.
Japan’s isolation policy was fully implemented by Tokugawa Iemitsu, Ieyasu’s grandson and shogun from 1623 to 1651. His edicts largely closed Japan to all foreigners and prevented his subjects from leaving Japan. The document that I would like you to read (you can by clicking here), the most famous of Iemitsu’s exclusions edicts, is directed to the two commissioners of Nagasaki, a port city in southern Japan and an early center of Christianity.
When you are finished reading the document, I would like you to think about and discuss the following: What steps are to be taken to suppress Christianity? How are commercial dealings with foreigners to be handled before they are ended altogether? In what ways did the edict affect the shogun’s Japanese subjects? Does trade or Christianity seem to have been the greater threat to Japan according to the edict? Your thoughts…
42 comments:
irstly the jpanes were very controlling of any mattrs that had to do ith foreign countries especially with europeans. they would kill catholic priest, and anyone ho was seen practicing the religion. they very much controlled trade with uropeans. But something i don get is why they wouldn't lt anyone leave the counry? like what if thy didnt want to go to europe but some here else? and why would they kill them if they tried leaving or coming back? wouldnt this harm them in th long run?
It seemed like the Japanese's main concern were the Christians and were afraid that converts would overthrow the government. Most of the other traid was just restricted and tightly controlled. I understand that unless Japan had done this, they probably would have fallen under European rule, but i still would not like to live in a society where my whole life was confined to one island.
This i think is a wise choice for japanese shguns but what happened on the end was highly unpredictale
Wow that document was interesting. My favorite part was the section about finding a high priest and getting 100 silver in return!! I think from this with JApanese being poor maybe the people there started to turn on Christianity and try to seek out these priests in return for booty.
I also thought it interesting that they actually used the term "southern Barbarians".
ALSO!! I have had that Istanbul/constantinople song in my head allll day....
who is it by again?? U2??
they might be giants
The document says that any Westerners that spread the teachings of Christianity were to be incarcerated in prison. What happened to those who were caught practicing Christianity? Were they also incarcerated or put to death?
I am happy to see a civilization finally pull away from the pattern of falling because of European influence. But that doesnt justify Japan's reasoning from isolating themselves from the rest of the world. How do you think Japan obtained goods like guns, printing press, clocks, and other things? Through trade and cultural diffsion, a society grows and prospers. Without trading they would not have been able to unify itself so quickly. Japan needs to learn from their's and others' mistakes, but also methods that have helped them in the long run.
I think the japanese should not have blocked out the europeans altogether and should hava done what they did for the dutch for the rest of europe. but kicking out christianity was a good idea, because other than through trade it gave the europeans no leverage in japan.
I just posted a comment, but it said duplicate error. Did my comment make it through? I need to know if I need to repost, please.
yeah, i didn't get it...
I think that the japanese made the right choice... well obviously. I mean if they were the only ones victorius against the west, or at least not dependent on them as every other society has become, that has to count for something! I noticed that in this document the emporer definatly hated the Christians greatly, and i wonder if so many did convert in the begining when Oda Nobunaga did allow Christianity, what happened to those who did? Did they convert back to confucuanism? and another thing i thought was bad was how the japanese government wanted them out so bad, they were willing to pay peasents and high elites silver if they knew any whereabouts of the priests! I just suprised because they wanted the Christians out and fast.
aw man! It was a good one, too.
here goes:
so much for religious tolerance.
First of all, to supress Christianity, they kicked out all the preists and those who would not convert back. Then, those who were left were murdered. Christianity was driven underground. Anyone who knew about secret practice would give information for $. Trade became very strict and watched closely. Japanese sailors who came back from European lands were murdered. Merchandise and ships were searched at ports. The ships could only stay certian periods of time or were kicked out. Fear of Christianity lead to trade being feared. They had let the merchants come in, then the missionaries, before they realized Christian Europe's theme and flipped. So it was not initally trade which was feared. Watching trade soon after carefully just showed their fear of takeover of the Christians.
wow, they did get serious with trading, and becoming isolated seemed to work for them. I guess I understand that those are the kind of measures you're gonna have to take when you think you are in danger like the Philippines. When it said that each person who would find a high ranking priest who again 100 pieces of silver, it made the think that people would actually go out and look for them just for he money. Then for Christians, they were to die, but who won't they try to convert the Christians back so they would at least have a chance of living for more years. Trading seemed to stop over all. So does that mean that the Japanese would mostly have to make or grow their own stuff? Over all, apparently Christianity and trade have a major threat on Japan.
this really remonds me of the angry father who realizes his daughter is dating a boy he doesn't like, so he locks her in her room and forbids her to see him, keeping a shotgun handy should the guy come back. it seems as though this whole thing would really piss some people off, though, because first of all, like with the girl and her father they may resent it and turn rebellious, and also if you see where it says "anyone living outside of Japan cannot return" ---that means splitting up families. but hey, if their goal was to separate japanese from the outside, this system sounds pretty functional. at least for a little while.
the japanese were atleast smart enough to kick the foreigners out because they knew what would happen next. if japan were to convert to christianity, who knows what would have happened. the consequence of that issue is that japan started to become isolated and wouldnt let anyone leave or come in. why did they do that? i didnt quite get it.
To suppress Christianity they evicted all the preists, forbid foreigners from coming in, and did not allow Japenese that lived abroad to come back to Japan. Commercial dealings with foreigners is limited and they only trade with Asian cities in two ports and they only trade with the Dutch once a year in one port. I think that trade was a bigger threat to Japan because once in they could send more and more of the foreigners and they could sell all their stuff and after selling so much of it to the Japanese, they could in turn make them dependent on them, however, Christianity does seem like an equal threat because once the Daimyo and Shoguns converted, they would follow Christian doctrine and could turn on the dynasty.
Wait Prill how in the world did I hear U2 for that song????
darn in I lost a quarter too!
to stop christianity from spreading they held the threat of imprisonment and death over the people's heads. they also were appealing to others to stop it by offering rewards to those reported it. it was also harder to have foreign priests to come in because of laws restricting foreign ships from coming. the japanese only let the dutch in, and i don't remember the dutch being big with conversions, and besides that they knew it was illegal so they were just interested in trade. it was also hard for the people of japan to learn about christianity from outside of japan since it was illegal for them to even leave, and even if they could they would still be in trouble when they come back.
I think that the Japanese went a little over board with all the rules and laws about what people can do regarding trade. They searched boats for priests and would kill people if they came back after from living overseas. Who would want to come back to that ha. I do think that it was a smart idea to limit the Europe ports to one location, however, I think that they should have let more then the Dutch ship goods there.
It seems to me that the Japanese were really concerned that Europeans were going to take over, so their solution was to basically cut off trade and such to isolate them and make sure Europeans wouldn't take over. Its odd how they use the term "Southern Barbarics" as a name for the Westerners because I wouldn't think of them as Barbaric at all.
I think it was a good idea for the japanese to isolate themselves and it definitely worked for them i just would hate to be stuck there but those r the things u need to do to help our country.
Hot dang! He crucified nine Catholic missionaries, and seventeen Japanese converts? For realz?!?! Now that's the kind of leader I like, one who knows what to do when things need takin' care of. We need to bring back crucifixtion. I guarantee that crime would drop in a heartbeat. Hideyoshi is a man's man. We need a president like him. Then maybe we could actually WIN a war, instead of just being the last one's to pull out.
The Japanese were very smart for kicking out all foreign merchants out except the Dutch to use them as that "peep hole to the west" that you mentioned during class. i like that analogy by the way haha.
The japanese went to extreme measures to prevent christianity. in the documents, it states that they paid 100 silver for a capture of a priest. Same goes for the foreigns. If a japanese went over seas, he was arrested and the ship impounded. If a japanese went overseas and came back, he was put to death. Trading cities werent allowed to buy merchandise from foreigns. They were that terrified of foreigns.
I think that what the japanese chose to do was very interesting because even though they were maybe more isolated than most other countries. They were smart and they were able to connect the dots. They kicked out all the Christians which is very smart, but they were also almost scared of them? And i thought it was interesting that they returned a priest and got silver in exchange.
i think that what japan did was wise. they didnt fall behind europe like the rest of the world. they caught onto the pattern. but incarceration of christians in prison wasnt necessary. it was a little to far i think. thy went to far especially eith the rules with trade and all that about the ships.
it seems like he was afraid of what might have happened if the christians stayed. he was also strict about trading and stuff. that's a good thing though. being paranoid saved japan from european invasion.
This is cool because you can tell the emperor is trying to get his point across that there is to be little european connection if any at all. He's like banning catholicism too because he says an investigation must be conducted if there is a place where it's being practised. Also, it says that the goods brought by foreign ships are regarded as useless basically. I think all of these rules and guidelines to follow are good for japan because it helps them acheive their over all goal of beocomign unified and not becoming a dependent zone to europe just like the pattern has been in other countries.
i think that the japanese were very lucky in figurin out the pattern of how the europeans make a country dependent on them before it could happen to them
oh and i think that the term southern barbarian is really funny considerin the fact that europeans had been callin everyone else barbarians. a little taste of their own medicine? haha
I think the Japanese did the right thing. every other society that copied western europe just ended up being a dependent region of the west. It sounded like Japan did not want to trade with anyone especiallly christians because it says that every ship that wants to trade was searched for priests.
In a way I understand what the Japanese were thinking. The way I interpret it is: If the Japanese onyl learn traditional Japanese ways and do not conform to the rest of the world's ways then they will be satisfied and content with the way the government is run. Suppose on of the Japanese citizens leaves the country and settles in a country where the government is run differently? As soon as they return they would immeditely begin comparisions between the two even if it is subconciously. Eventually such thoughts could lead to rebellious thoughts and attempted rebellious actions. Also, with the prosecution of Christianity: The Japanese might have recognized the pattern "merchants, missionaries, military", but they might have also (though not necessarially) realized the influence that the West had upon Christianity since that's where it began. If Japanese citizens were to become Westernized they may disapprove of the Japanese government and revolt, or possibly tell local Western Europeans of Japans customs ect., giving the Europeans useful information for a military attack. Trade with Europeans also gave the opportunity to citizens of Japan to become Westernized and have the possibility of revolt. Just a thought.
Also, is it just me or does the Japanese prosecution of Christianity seem slightly similar to Hitler's prosecution of Jews?
The Japanese were so tight with outside contact. Especially with trading. They had strict rules for all things dealing with other regions. Hideyoshi was afraid of losing his power, or a part of his power, if other high ranked officials were to gain more power. He did not like the idea of the Catholic church to let the Priest run the show. Definitely wasn't up for sharing any sort of power. When his power was on the line, he shut everything down and kicked out all "outsiders." This would even include Japanese that left to live in Europe and come back after a short time. They were put to death. Hideyoshi didn't see this as some sort of game, but as a serious matter.
Japan wasn't kidding when it came to foreigners and outside activity. The Japanese were afraid that if everybody converted to Christianity, a new from of government and life style would take over their traditional lifestyles. The bigger threat was Christianity. With trade, you're dealing more with the actual good/item. The introduction of a new lifestyle changes an entire place and their outlooks and ways of thinking. Commercial dealings with foreigners were extremely strict. This gave the Westerners an impression that there services were not greatly needed by the Japanese but it did bring a certain amount of prophet. I understand why Japan took this isolation to such extremes. They wanted to retain their old lifestyles and of course, the shogun's wanted to keep their power.
In this document you can tell that Japan really did take Europe seriosly. They knew that if they had converted to Christianity then the mmilitary would have been right on their heels. They went the extra mile in order to establish guidelines for trade and any encounters with Southern Barbarians. I think that Christianity was more of a threat because they had seen the reoccuring pattern that Europe was following: merchants, missionarries, then military. Besides that they didn't stop trade all together because they still needed to keep up with the new technologies and ideas that Europe had.
The Japanese were smart to have secluded themselves from Europe a bit. They didn't shut down Europe wholly but blocked them from sending converters, and such. They did trade and it was very restricted, the only reason was to see what Europe was up to and they could get whatever goods that interested them. They feared very much of losing their culture, or people telling of their position, so they killed off people trying leave the island or any that were entering, to prevent undercover spies hired by Europe and converters and such.
They Do not permit priests into Japan and if they are found they are killed.
I think taht Christianity that is the bigger threat to them because they were more concerned about priests traveling with the ships rather then the actual ships.
they were definitely very strict in keeping Christianity out and for good reason... they noticed the pattern that followed and before the military could come all connections to the Europeans (minus the dutch) were cut off. that was smart because they could still see what was going on in the rest of the world by using the dutch who weren't really any threat at all
i guess they did the right thing to kick out the Christians if they wanted their own rule to continue. but i still do wonder what Japan would look like today if they hadn't. weird.
the japanese had very effective and set rules that helped aid in the control of the europeans. they did not follow the ignorance policy that the islamic empires followed, but instead they addressed europe and then chose to exclude themselves from westernization. the japanese already had a realm of their own that was similar to that of the europeans. they did however developed independently of them and thus had their own advantages. for example: when the portuguese brought guns to trade, the japanese bought the first round of guns, studied them, and then developed better ones for their own armies. the japanese were quite concerned about european influence. they did not want to become a dependent zone on europe, and with them realizing the pattern of: merchants, missionaries, military; they were able to stop the cycle before they were completely overcome by the europeans. their control was successful in monitoring and maintaining an outlook into the world, and a closed environment that prohibited foreigners and foreign customs from penetrating the established(ing) japanese system that was proving to work effectively. personally, i must say this was a pretty epic end to season three. :)
I think that the Japanese should not have blocked out the western civilization at all. They made a mistake about this and it came and bit affecte dthem later. It didnt allow them to do anything. It was not right.
It is restricted for Japanese to leave and any Japanese coming from foreign lands after residing there must be execututed. There are many restrictions on trade, and the Japanese are pushing foreigners out. They are suppressing Catholic missionaries and rewarding those who tell of their whereabouts. Before foreign trade is ended altogether, it is restricted. Samurai are not allowed to buy goods directly from foreigners, and foreign goods are dispersed in many cities, not one city, as to make trade harder for foreigners. Payment must be made within 20 days, so the foreigners will not have reason to stick around. Foreigners are given a date that they have to leave, or those who come late can only stay 50 days, which made trade for foreigners in Japan limitted and unlpleasant. Christianity is the greater threat, as the Japanese were more harsh with missionaries than merchants. The Japanese thoroughly searched for missionaries to make sure none came in and that none resided in Japan.
the japenese need to stop worring so much about the christians and start worrying about themselves more.. this was def there main concern it seemed like
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