Wednesday, December 3, 2008

Protestantism and Women

The rise of Protestantism inevitably affected discussion of women's roles. By arguing against the special sanctity of celibacy and religious orders, Protestant leaders, beginning with Luther, focused new attention on marriage. At the same time, Protestantism also encouraged a belief in the capacity of individuals to nurture their own contacts with God and the Bible, without elaborate intermediate apparatus from church and priests. This belief might apply to women as well as men. In sum: New debate about women's roles emerged as part of religious ferment, and this extended well into the 17th century.

There were other factors involved. Throughout Western Europe, new arguments were developing about economic roles. The rise of commerce was accompanied by greater gender differentiations, and women who had once held positions in trade and craft manufacture were now often attacked. Women's labor remained essential, but their range of activities narrowed. At the same time, growing prosperity led to more complex household activities, such as more formal evening meals, in which women could take a lead role. Here was another situation in which complex trade-offs occurred.

The following documents that I would like you to read relate directly to the implications of Protestantism, coming from 16th and 17th century England. Protestantism generated ringing reassertions of male authority, derived among other things from close reading of parts of the Bible. But it also generated more radical sects that took quite a different view, and individual women built on this religious ferment to venture some political claims as well.

In recent decades, historians have paid increasing attention to the impact of Protestantism on the family and on women. They have come to realize that some important new issues were emerging, particularly in terms of the imagery and actual roles of women in the family.

The implications of this debate were varied. In many Protestant families, men assumed new moral authority, responsible among other things for guiding family Bible reading. But there was also new attention to the importance of happiness in marriage, which could lead to greater appreciation of women's roles at least domestically. The idea of some political claims, though it led to no immediate change, set the context for renewed discussion of political rights beginning in the late 18th century.

The first two documents that I would like you to read show the gender-conservative side of Protestantism, with a statement by the Scottish Calvinist leader, John Knox (you can read it by clicking here; the last paragraph of pg. 13 all the way through the end of the first paragraph on page 15), and a 17th century marriage text by a Protestant minister, William Gouge (you can read it by clicking here; just read part 5, pgs. 192-193). The more radical side is expressed by George Fox, an English Quaker leader (you can read it by clicking here, just read part CCXCI, pgs 39-41). Quakers argued that women could be priests, and organized women's meetings widely in 1671. The last document I'd like you to read shows how Protestantism could lead to political claims, as 17th century women asserted their rights to a voice before the English parliament in seeking the release of husbands who had been arrested for their participation in the Levelers, a radical religious/political group (you can read it by clicking here).

Once you have read the documents, I would like for you to think about and discuss the following: Why was there a tension in Protestantism over women's position and religious role? How did conservatives base their claims? How did radicals base theirs? What was the relationship between the "humble petition" to parliament and Protestant ideas? What kind of rights were the petitioners claiming, and were they revolutionary? What were the implications of this running debate over women's status? How might it affect relations between men and women in early modern England? How might Protestant leaders and ordinary Protestants work out some compromise between conservative and radical views about women? Were ideas about women and gender relations changing faster at this point in Western Europe than in other parts of the world? Why did Protestants promote a new debate about women and gender relations? Your thoughts...

16 comments:

Alina said...

the conservative protestants kinda said that it was the woman's duty to treat her husband as a superior, kinda saying that it is what god wanted. they of course could just use god as justification, when really it was men preaching and being close-minded. it's kinda like when rulers use the mandate of heaven or say that god sent them. it's really easy to do something when people think god is on ur side.

weren't the quakers kinda considered liberal and rebellious by puritans? that's just what i remember. if so, it would make sense for them to want to give women more rights. that is kinda like how in literature everything reacts to something, like romanticism to rationalism, trancedentalism to romanticism, and dark romanticism to trancedentalism. well it's like the protestant reformation was a reaction to the catholic church, and from that there was a reaction that formed quakers. that's kinda just what it seems like. it kinda just got people thinking about what they were being taught, and the people who became quakers realised the roles women had played in the bible were more important than previous preachers had let on.

of course if ur going to reform, why not have an early feminist group! they just wanted to not be treated badly by men. girl power!

is this not like when you posted that thing about aristotle's beliefs on women? once again you'll probably get angry reactions, maybe a few sexist jokes, and a reference to literature by me!

Thought said...

Was it 113 to 115? or 13 to 15?

David Douglas said...

okay. so from what i read in the first document...it was the same old tune. Women are below men, they cannot speak in the congregation of church, and will never be above men. the second document reminded me much of the Chinese way of thinking. it states that the women must acknowledge that the men are superior. even if the man is the lowliest man, he will be respected by the woman, as a command from God. (this is what it says in the document...don't kill me...i don't believe this haha). and wow. the 3rd document was pretty cool. it says that yes, women must obey the man, but the man must also obey the woman (sort of parallel to Confucianism theory on how to be in harmony with everything?). it says they should work together to spread the word. i found it interesting that they described the woman preaching using her body parts (i.e. breasts for consolation, milk of the word, etc.) which reminded me of how they teach in church to have weapons and armor of the word. it shows that they thought of eachother as equal, but in different ways (such as in hunter gatherer societies, women gathered nuts, berries while men hunted; different jobs, but equal). the 4th and final document is from a woman's POV, and she states that one day, women will be able to preach whenever, wherever they want. she says that women should not be bound by such laws of sexism. i found the 3rd document most inspiring...and the fourth was sort of a drag. (no offense). anyway...sorry for the super long post! :D

Thought said...

I don't wanna comment until I know if it's 113 or 13, but I don't think it's 113, didn't see anything on women...and there isn't a 114...I would also like to help everyone to keep in mind, to keep their mind open! Don't think so ignorantly about what some people say, think more critically about where they're coming from.
In "the guy with my first name for his last name"(Roger A. Mason)'s documents, He is expressing that he believes women play a role but are very limited ESPECIALLY in terms of religious contribution. He is agreeing with the Apostle, and using the words of the Apostle to justify his argument, much like countries would justify their means of "exploration" by saying it's a quest to save the souls of non-Christian believers. But, unlike that this is more of a religious argument without any sort of economic means running the show behind stage, like the stage manager. In William Gourge's documents, clearly states that it doesn't matter their personality or faults, their social standing, or any other matter subject to a man's over-all appearance, but a wife must, upon marriage, accept her husband's superiority. It sets the mindset about, not only women needing men and having to work under men, but also that it doesn't really matter where you're from in society, or how far down the hill is you dug yourself into, you're still better than a woman. Why? Because men bear the image of God and therefore have spiritual and social superiority to women.
George Fox's document was more confusing, but I think he was trying to say, emphasize trying, was that women have equal rights as men? They have their own duties as men also do, but still share in the same burdens, and should also share the same rights? Am I close or far? I don't honestly know...
I couldn't read the last document cause my niece is distracting me by beating the Holy Marin Luther out of that keyboard of over there...My posts are long...

Prill said...

yeah, it was pg. 13-15, thanks mr. gaultney, i fixed my typo. at any rate, hey, some good and thoughtful posts here. very good connections everybody. i especially like the way you made comparisons over time with hunter-gather societies and confucian philosophy mr. douglas. good thinking!!!

Anonymous said...

in the 1st document, "God who by his own voice hath subjected her to one member of the congragation, her husband." The conservative protestants said women cant, rule above the men, publicly speak, or teach or judge. Her role was to be by her husbands side and they justified this with different quotes from the bible, saying that this is what was destined and what god told them they have to do

On the last document was by the radical women; they seemed almost suprised of how they are not treated equally and they deserve every right man has. they dont think it is fair that they have to stay home while their husband is taken to prison

Anonymous said...

The petitioners had to stand up for there husbands and they stated that they knew they didn't have the right to express their opinion but they had to stick up for those who are superior to them as well. The protestants viewed women as below the men. Even if the man that they married were worse off than them before marriage, the had to treat the male as superior. Radicals basically gave no rights to any women except giving jobs to them in the church. Harsh but we can't change it, since its already happened.

MDG said...

In the first document, it's mentioned that it's basically God's plan to have the women below the men. They must respect and answer to them. As the documents progress, the thought becomes more and more in favor of females and how they need more of a parallel relationship with the male. The last document is written by a women saying that the woman should basically have control over the male. Although I'm a female, I think that it'd basically just flip flopping the situation and making it just as bad.

Nicole Gustafson said...

aghhh! good thing u put those horrible ones 1st and left us with the not so bad ones...I would have screamed on here!!!! ahhh!

Since there was a break in ideas from the Catholic church, the others, Prot., would be fighting among themselves to create a new order of a new group, but they differed in ideas. conservatives placed women below men, because "eve tricked adam into eating forbidden fruit" and now WE women ALL MUST PAY!!! ...y don't the men just become more intellegent and less gullible and not so lazy...find their own fruit. and I can't believe so many women went along with this!!!
the radicals said women could speak, teach, be the mother of the church, men were less, but still superior.
the humble petition is basically womens rights and the want for it. I'm sure there was much debating on the subject and it would be like being raised into a belief or superiority or not form the start, like that of slavery, right? but there are always some born who always have one side dominant over the other who are just completly against or for it. those are the game changers. their compromise could be to split apart completly, with boundaries, etc. or to create a set of laws granting certian rights to certian privliages. OR women could destroy all the men except for a few and begin again with them being dominant!!
people have different views on the bible and the church and religion in general, especially over a complicated one like Christianity.

Have y'all heard of lilith? she is said to have been adam's 1st wife. god created them together, giving each of them their own rib and equal standards. but they did not get along. she was offended when they had sex, "Why must I lie beneath you?" she asked him. "I too was formed from dust, and am therefore your equal." he became mad and forceful. she left him and he was alone. he complained to god. so god made him another, but there was not enough parts left becuase he had only needed two, so he took from adam and created eve, also this made her submissive to him. she was made to be beolw him and not be his equal.
check out the full story. it's fantastic. http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/2975/lillith.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/239438
/the_mother_of_abomination_the_tales.html?cat=37

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/369140/woman_before_eve_the_story_of_lilith.html?cat=37

madison archer said...

Wow. The first 2 documents were pretty one-sided. No matter how perfect the woman was and no matter how terrible the man was the woman was still completely subject to the man. In the other document though men and women were viewed as equals. This just reinforces a common pattern of history where people use religious ideas, that aren't necessarily accurate, to justify things they do to fit their personal agenda.

Ben Doty said...

The first two documents said that men were superior to women and women were just basically housewives. The second document says the same thing. It says that women were to look up to the men and supposedley that is what God wanted them to do. On the other hand, the third document was saying that men and women were almost equal. They were supposed to work together to carry out the word of God. The fourth document was a women questioning the role of women. She was saying that men and women were created equal in the eyes of God and in turn they shoulod be treated equal.

Kirsten said...

He’s saying that women should have no voice and are subject only to their husband. And of course he cleverly makes sure he makes it so that women can never “rule or bear empire above a man”, so men will always be in charge. Then, he says that if a woman somehow manages to get a position above a man, she is a monster.

In the second document, it’s saying that in taking a man to be your husband, you are acknowledging him as superior to yourself.

The third document is saying that man and women were created equal (i.e. Adam and Eve) and after their sin men were promoted above women. Then, after Jesus died for our sins, man and women were made equal again. It justifies this by saying that Jesus had women followers, and that Jesus called women to do the same things as men. Then, it names women who were teachers and prophets, I think to prove that women should be pastors.

In the fourth document, the women argue that women and men have the same rights and parts, and they should get a divorce since their husbands were arrested.

Electra Fox said...

I think that the new idea of a happy marriage is great… more power to them. Though, I am sick of the spiritual leadership of men. I don’t see how there is any more morality in one gender or another, and I think that the ultimate lesson of Christianity(or one of them) is how God loves all his children equally. Yea to George Fox!!!

yongpark said...

Women are looked down on again.
Now this time they add that God announced this to the the world, and all humans.
I read and the women were practically slaves to their husbands, and that they had no will of their own.
And It was women's responsiblity to please man, and only to that. Also that women are and never will be superior over man. I thought, though that women converted to Christianity and all because it said man and woman were equal, so women favored it.

Now it's twisted...

KelseyBengochea said...

The same old song and dance... Women are inferior to men and their roles in society are limited, if they have any at all other than being a housewife... I mean why do we talk about the role of women in each society if its all the same until... what the 1920's? I get when there is someting that differs but I mean c'mon look at history... societies that let women have an active role in society lasted just as long as those who didn't and sometimes longer...

The Odyssey said...

woman were treated poorly. they were viewed as lower than men. what gets me is how if a woman married a man who before thee marriage was lower than she, how and why should she be viewed as under the man whenever she is more successful??